10 Questions With a Rags To Riches Copywriter (This Could Be YOU!)

1) How much caffeine/sugar/crack do you consume in a day

Ha – people ask me that all the time. I was a no caffeine person for years, until I had my twins (now two years old). Then I found coffee, though I can only tolerate ½ cup in the morning. I have a ton of energy and talk really fast, so I’ve worked hard on enunciating my words to compensate. I’m a circle talker – so better to have me write answers than speak them – much more succinct.  J

2) How (and when) did you get started in PR? Were you always interested in sales?

I’m not really in the PR world, or didn’t think I was. But social media platforms have opened access to all of us – you no longer need a big machine to be successful. You just need focus, consistency and really compelling content. I say, “If Content is King, then Context is Queen, be relevant and extraordinary if you want to go Viral.”

I LOVE sales – love thinking on my feet – love making deals – love it. Writing makes me happy, creating fulfills me, but doing the deals – it makes me fly.  You’ve seen it.  I thought I was tired of sales – but THAT is my crack.  LOVE LOVE LOVE getting the deal.  LOVE to solve problems and be the hero – it’s just part of me.

I think my biggest strength is the ability to truly stand in the shoes of the client and think like I’m them. I’ve said no to more projects than yes, because their plan wasn’t what was best for them. In fact, recently a client wanted to do pay per performance…for SEO!  It took all my mamma ever taught me to do the right thing and say no.

I told them the first 2 months it might be a loss for me, even 3-4 months – but by month 6 they’d be paying me twice what it costs and year 2? I’d be cashing 6 figure checks – and they’d be a lot smarter and realize I stole from them. So my focus on big picture – that’s the key.

My old VP taught me – never ever look at the check – look at the client – their cause –and keep your eye on the ball, show them you care, have integrity and the money comes naturally.

He was right. But yeah, I love sales – I love the deal making.

3) How has copywriting helped you succeed?

In every way. Learning to focus on desire and pain – handling objections through my words – love that. My ability to craft a story on paper, translates well to how I sell.  Ask questions, know the answers BEFORE you give the solution.

Copywriting has taught me to be more bullet pointed in any conversation – it’s allowed me to stay focused on topic at hand – and remember, even when negotiating – people need solutions and they need options – not too many, though.

So I think of every meeting like a sales page – I think about my words – I think about what I’m trying to accomplish. Copywriting has been my value add. I sold printing for 17 years – the reason I was so successful was because I was really good – the best in some cases (niches), because I focused on value add….which was my ability to take what they had, position it in the best way possible to the RIGHT audience – it took me from 6 figures to 7 figures in one year when I was in my 20’s.

It was the game changer. That’s when I realized what social capitol really meant – your social capitol is what you bring to the table no one else can, or better than anyone else.

My ability to “sell” on paper came from copywriting background.

4) What has changed most since you first came up in the PR world and how have you adapted to the changes?

Again, I’m not really a PR person – or part of that world – or wasn’t.  But now with all the new social media channels and outlets, the ability to do a “deal” with a partner – say a Forbes – bring them a compelling product/service to talk about – well that’s just copywriting.

Most media outlets are much more accessible. Starting with email and following up with a phone call has made it much easier for smaller companies to get media exposure previously dedicated to big brands. Everyone wants to report on the Cinderella story first, so if you can position your ‘project’ correctly, you can get a big time blogger or online news outlet to actually interview you or your client MUCH easier.

5) Someone once told me you could sell spiders to an arachnophobe. What are some important lessons you’ve learned in selling?

LOL .  I always say , I can sell ice to Eskimos- but ONLY if they need it.  And I learned that early on…there is a principle I learned in a sales class called LAER.

Listen, acknowledge, explore then respond.

Wow, that was a game changer to me. When you hear an objection, acknowledge FIRST – and never respond until THEY can expand – even if you know what they are going to say – NEVER respond until you ready to close.

An Example:

Client: “I really want to do this campaign, but it’s so expensive.”

Acknowledge – I hear you.  It looks like a big risk on paper, and it’s real money,

Explore  –so what do you think would make this campaign not work for you?

Client: “Well, I’m not sure how we respond to all the comments, who will do that – I just don’t have the resources right now.”

Acknowledge – That makes a lot of sense – I know your marketing department is completely overwhelmed as it is.

Explore – Is that your only concern?  What else would prevent our success for your brand?

Client: “I’m not sure they are even on social media platforms.”

Once you uncover the objections and the client feels empathy – ONLY then do you respond.

Look Mr. Client – I hear you say you have the money you could spend on this initiative, and you even believe it could work with the right resources or plan, is that right?

Client: “Yes.”

Then what do you think about this?  Let me go back and work on how we could streamline for you, do some of the day to day heavy lifting, and while it might cost a little more, if we can generate the sales we’ve projected would it be worth it?

How can they say no?

The key is making sure they are telling you why they really don’t want to do it – and if you don’t listen, empathize (build trust) and explore – you will squander time in circles.

And that leads to the most important lesson I’ve learned.

Not EVERY client is the RIGHT client for you. If you have to bend too many of your own rules, if they aren’t committed internally to support you, it’s too hard and not worth it.

Finding like minded clients is key to your success.

And if they don’t trust you, you are dead.

Period.

Dead.

Trust is everything between and agency and a client. Otherwise, everyone operates from fear; you trying to please them, them unsure about you and everyone gets in a “safe” place.  

Long term, no one profits.

6) How is it that you’re able to talk with anyone, regardless of who they are or what they do? Are you ever intimidated?

Never. I am never intimidated ever. Which is odd; hillbilly I guess.

Do I have high self esteem? I don’t know. I just get them to talk about themselves- once that happens I can find the synergies and then move us into a common area. My biggest gift is being able to connect with people in their heart space. I get big personalities out of the left brain into their heart – truly. Once I get people to right side of brain  – it’s over.

I also genuinely give a shit about them and their business. Business IS personal. If I can’t help, I’ll find someone who can. It’s what I believe I was made to do. “I’m the crazy creator, daring dream maker and the great facilitator.” LOLOLOL  Personal development mumbo jumbo – but it’s what I believe and it’s how I live.

My goal is to NEVER waste anyone’s time – so if I can’t help, then I make sure I leave them with a solution to a problem that is burning to them.

7) Is there any type of personality that you find takes better to writing sales copy than others? What advice do you give people who have a hard time at it?

The people who write the best copy understand human nature and are amazing researchers. Not in that order.

If you do the right homework to understand your audience and position your product from a benefits perspective – your writing will sin. The homework is key.

Take this stock options trading education program we recently launched – even though it LOOKS like these fifty-something traders want education – they really have a gambling spirit and so you have to focus on why they WANT to trade – then position education in a way that doesn’t seem like work. The biggest problem most people have with copy is doing the homework – hands down. You must love to learn, stay on top of what others are writing, and know what works.

Hot shot sales letters don’t work if you don’t understand what the audience wants to hear – and this comes from interviews of client, full understanding of product and knowing why they buy.

8) If you were to narrow copywriting down to three key things it MUST do, what would those be?

1.      Rock at Research

2.      Sell Through Story Telling that Sings

3.      Ability To Think Outside The Box

9) What’s been the biggest challenge in your career and how did you overcome it?

Saying no. Seriously, and I’m still working on it.

Slowing down, getting clear about what I can do and what THEY have to do – understanding I can’t want it for the client more than they want it for themselves.

Boundaries are, and have always been, hard for me.

10) Who are your inspirations?

You, Jonathan Fields, Brian Clark, Leo from Zen Habits – people who were successful, making money and just went for it – pushed through fears – and asked “Why Not?”

That motivates me. People who chase a dream and believe they can make it happen – and then do.

I want to be Secretariat every single day of my life – the horse that made a name for himself running in the back and out sprinting everyone at the last minute to the finish line – because that’s what he liked.  Until the ONE time – he said – Fuck, you want to see what I can really do?

Eat this.

And on the 3^rd leg of the triple crown, he ran in the front, faster than any horse in history then and even now – people like Jack Nicklaus cried, cheered – and he made millions believe in miracles.

He ran his race, one time and wowed a nation.

I want to be him.

10) What’s the best copywriting advice you’ve ever been given?

Not every one wants to be rich and not everyone wants to be skinny.

People don’t like extremes, they don’t even believe in them. Don’t sell the Cinderella story – you can allude to it – but even if you made 500K one day trading stocks, even if they believe YOU did it, they don’t believe they can. So tell them something reasonable they can truly achieve – and you’ll be the guy with the water jug when they come out of the desert of doubt.

Thanks Lori, that was awesome!

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